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	<title>Comments on: The Pull Factor in SaaS</title>
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	<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/</link>
	<description>Jeff Nolan&#039;s take on investment, innovation, entrepreneurship and the technology industry</description>
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		<title>By: Daily Ventures - Today Top Blog Posts on Venture Capitalist - Powered by SocialRank</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-175280</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily Ventures - Today Top Blog Posts on Venture Capitalist - Powered by SocialRank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-175280</guid>
		<description>[...] The Pull Factor in SaaS [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Pull Factor in SaaS [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Startup Signal - Today&#8217;s Top Blog Posts on Entrepreneurship - Powered by SocialRank</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-173807</link>
		<dc:creator>Startup Signal - Today&#8217;s Top Blog Posts on Entrepreneurship - Powered by SocialRank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 10:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-173807</guid>
		<description>[...] The Pull Factor in SaaS [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Pull Factor in SaaS [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-152315</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 15:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-152315</guid>
		<description>Tom and Bob,
First of all, thanks for the comments. I have to take exception with the oft-repeated &quot;SaaS is still too early in the cycle to really know&quot; because these companies are anything but new. Salesforce and Netsuite have been at this for a decade, it&#039;s not like patterns have yet to emerge. 

If the argument then becomes &quot;there aren&#039;t enough large companies on the SaaS model&quot; well then I think you have to ask a different question, which is &quot;can companies get big on this model?&quot;. If so, then why are there not more?

Bob, I read your post and have a couple of comments. First, when I was with SAP Ventures we invested in Webex so I do understand that business pretty well. I am inclined to take exception to your inclusion of them in your data collection because they were more like a telecom business than any of these SaaS models. However, I won&#039;t object because if one is an orange and the other an apple, well they are both fruit. I would give Webex lower weighting in your analysis but that&#039;s probably not material in the end.

I will say that you ask a compelling question: why aren&#039;t these companies more profitable? The financial data is clear, they aren&#039;t in investment mode because they spend very little of their dollars on R&amp;D and their datacenter operations costs, while significant, don&#039;t rise to the level of R&amp;D spending. I believe SFdC spent $50m on datacenter buildout over a multi-year period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom and Bob,<br />
First of all, thanks for the comments. I have to take exception with the oft-repeated &#8220;SaaS is still too early in the cycle to really know&#8221; because these companies are anything but new. Salesforce and Netsuite have been at this for a decade, it&#8217;s not like patterns have yet to emerge. </p>
<p>If the argument then becomes &#8220;there aren&#8217;t enough large companies on the SaaS model&#8221; well then I think you have to ask a different question, which is &#8220;can companies get big on this model?&#8221;. If so, then why are there not more?</p>
<p>Bob, I read your post and have a couple of comments. First, when I was with SAP Ventures we invested in Webex so I do understand that business pretty well. I am inclined to take exception to your inclusion of them in your data collection because they were more like a telecom business than any of these SaaS models. However, I won&#8217;t object because if one is an orange and the other an apple, well they are both fruit. I would give Webex lower weighting in your analysis but that&#8217;s probably not material in the end.</p>
<p>I will say that you ask a compelling question: why aren&#8217;t these companies more profitable? The financial data is clear, they aren&#8217;t in investment mode because they spend very little of their dollars on R&amp;D and their datacenter operations costs, while significant, don&#8217;t rise to the level of R&amp;D spending. I believe SFdC spent $50m on datacenter buildout over a multi-year period.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Warfield</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-151818</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Warfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-151818</guid>
		<description>Actually, the numbers do speak to SaaS having a lower cost of customer acquisition than conventional perpetual license models.  Take a look at my blog post on this:

http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/its-cheaper-for-saas-companies-to-acquire-customers/

It really is cheaper for SaaS companies to acquire customers than for equivalent sized perpetual companies.  In fact, its quite a bit cheaper.  

Companies like Oracle have achieved a level of scale that largely boils down to brand and a huge tail of highly profitable maintenance revenues.  Funds like Silver Lake will tell you there is a pronounced knee in the cost for sales and marketing as perpetual companies exceed $1B in revenue.  What remains to be seen (SaaS is too new) is whether a similar knee will make it even cheaper for extremely large SaaS businesses.  

Meanwhile, the lack of profitability in most SaaS is self-inflicted--they&#039;re spending for growth because they can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the numbers do speak to SaaS having a lower cost of customer acquisition than conventional perpetual license models.  Take a look at my blog post on this:</p>
<p><a href="http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/its-cheaper-for-saas-companies-to-acquire-customers/" rel="nofollow">http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/its-cheaper-for-saas-companies-to-acquire-customers/</a></p>
<p>It really is cheaper for SaaS companies to acquire customers than for equivalent sized perpetual companies.  In fact, its quite a bit cheaper.  </p>
<p>Companies like Oracle have achieved a level of scale that largely boils down to brand and a huge tail of highly profitable maintenance revenues.  Funds like Silver Lake will tell you there is a pronounced knee in the cost for sales and marketing as perpetual companies exceed $1B in revenue.  What remains to be seen (SaaS is too new) is whether a similar knee will make it even cheaper for extremely large SaaS businesses.  </p>
<p>Meanwhile, the lack of profitability in most SaaS is self-inflicted&#8211;they&#8217;re spending for growth because they can.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Greenberg</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-151795</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Greenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 20:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-151795</guid>
		<description>We must all remember the difference in the business models between traditional and SaaS. While traditional vendors such as Oracle, SAP or Microsoft  receive upfront license fees, the SaaS vendors such as Salesforce.com, Netsuite, Salesboom.com, RightNow, etc depend on monthly and sometimes yearly payments of much lesser amounts.

Besides, the SaaS model is still young and requires a lot more publicity..That should explain why so much money is going to marketing and sales.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We must all remember the difference in the business models between traditional and SaaS. While traditional vendors such as Oracle, SAP or Microsoft  receive upfront license fees, the SaaS vendors such as Salesforce.com, Netsuite, Salesboom.com, RightNow, etc depend on monthly and sometimes yearly payments of much lesser amounts.</p>
<p>Besides, the SaaS model is still young and requires a lot more publicity..That should explain why so much money is going to marketing and sales.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-151681</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-151681</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jason, I really appreciate your comment because you are living in this world.

Your point about selling direct to SMB is the key point in this debate, and as I have written on many occasions, in a mature industry like software sales and marketing will invariably become the largest expense category. Having said that, the SaaS companies have generally claimed two advantages, lower cost of delivering product (development cycle and to the actual customer) and lower cost of sales through low touch direct sales instead of channels.

I&#039;m not convinced, and the numbers certainly don&#039;t suggest, that lower cost of sales is a benefit at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jason, I really appreciate your comment because you are living in this world.</p>
<p>Your point about selling direct to SMB is the key point in this debate, and as I have written on many occasions, in a mature industry like software sales and marketing will invariably become the largest expense category. Having said that, the SaaS companies have generally claimed two advantages, lower cost of delivering product (development cycle and to the actual customer) and lower cost of sales through low touch direct sales instead of channels.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not convinced, and the numbers certainly don&#8217;t suggest, that lower cost of sales is a benefit at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason M. Lemkin</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-151675</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason M. Lemkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-151675</guid>
		<description>IMO the buzz around &#039;Saas&#039;, &#039;OnDemand&#039;, and whatever 2.0 disguises the fact that if you sell &#039;direct&#039; to SMBs and VSBs, it&#039;s very expensive.  

Software sales to SMBs can be very lucrative (Microsoft, Intuit on down) if you can create, or if there is innate, pull for your product.  Or if you can create a high-volume web lead business (WebEx, eFax, etc.)

But if you have to generate demand directly, via campaigns, noisy PR, outside sales, cold calls, inside sales for very small deals (</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO the buzz around &#8216;Saas&#8217;, &#8216;OnDemand&#8217;, and whatever 2.0 disguises the fact that if you sell &#8216;direct&#8217; to SMBs and VSBs, it&#8217;s very expensive.  </p>
<p>Software sales to SMBs can be very lucrative (Microsoft, Intuit on down) if you can create, or if there is innate, pull for your product.  Or if you can create a high-volume web lead business (WebEx, eFax, etc.)</p>
<p>But if you have to generate demand directly, via campaigns, noisy PR, outside sales, cold calls, inside sales for very small deals (</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-151627</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-151627</guid>
		<description>Simon,
I don&#039;t know the exact numbers, but I&#039;d speculate that in the history of that company SG&amp;A has never been higher than 40%. 

As I said in my post, there may be an apples to oranges comparison because of lifecycle, but as I think about it even more so because of it being SaaS and I&#039;m not up on what they call SG&amp;A and how it differs from the on premise vendors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon,<br />
I don&#8217;t know the exact numbers, but I&#8217;d speculate that in the history of that company SG&#038;A has never been higher than 40%. </p>
<p>As I said in my post, there may be an apples to oranges comparison because of lifecycle, but as I think about it even more so because of it being SaaS and I&#8217;m not up on what they call SG&#038;A and how it differs from the on premise vendors.</p>
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		<title>By: Brainshark Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The end of the beginning&#8230;of this blog</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-151625</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainshark Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The end of the beginning&#8230;of this blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-151625</guid>
		<description>[...] is definitely a hot buzzword these days – and for good reasons. From a customer’s perspective it allows a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is definitely a hot buzzword these days – and for good reasons. From a customer’s perspective it allows a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Simon G</title>
		<link>http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/comment-page-1/#comment-151530</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2007/08/02/the-pull-factor-in-saas/#comment-151530</guid>
		<description>Does anyone know what SAP, Oracle and the others spent on SG&amp;A in the heydays of the 1990s? Is the high SG&amp;A spending of the SaaS vendors because of their location in the adoption lifecycle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know what SAP, Oracle and the others spent on SG&amp;A in the heydays of the 1990s? Is the high SG&amp;A spending of the SaaS vendors because of their location in the adoption lifecycle?</p>
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