Comments on: The problem with partner “ecosystems” http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/ Jeff Nolan's take on investment, innovation, entrepreneurship and the technology industry Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:44:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Venture Chronicles http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-36097 Venture Chronicles Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:54:48 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-36097 [...] Fresh off my post about vendor partner programs and my observation that CIOs in enterprise IT don’t want to talk to startups comes this tidbit from Microsoft’s Cliff Reeves: Most of the time: Mid-Atlantic CIO Conference: 1) When companies are asked which vendor they would most like to get way from (Tom called this the “loathing index”), it was inevitably the one they made most use of. 2) When companies are asked which vendor they plan to buy more from, it is the one they use most of. Technorati Tags: CIO, Cliff Reeves Posted in Enterprise Software || [...] [...] Fresh off my post about vendor partner programs and my observation that CIOs in enterprise IT don’t want to talk to startups comes this tidbit from Microsoft’s Cliff Reeves: Most of the time: Mid-Atlantic CIO Conference: 1) When companies are asked which vendor they would most like to get way from (Tom called this the “loathing index”), it was inevitably the one they made most use of. 2) When companies are asked which vendor they plan to buy more from, it is the one they use most of. Technorati Tags: CIO, Cliff Reeves Posted in Enterprise Software || [...]

]]> By: Jeff http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-35965 Jeff Tue, 31 Oct 2006 06:30:00 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-35965 Anshu, How do your partners work with your account executives in the field? Through the product groups or vertical marketing folks? thx Anshu,
How do your partners work with your account executives in the field? Through the product groups or vertical marketing folks?

thx

]]> By: Anshu Sharma http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-35963 Anshu Sharma Tue, 31 Oct 2006 06:08:08 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-35963 Yes, Partner Programs are hard to navigate and it is difficult to gain visibility via them. At the same time I have seen several examples of companies that we at Oracle have added to our Ecosystem and helped them get PR and visibility into accounts. The only tip I have, if any, is that 'you' (the partner) has to do the hard work of identifying the right fit and then making sure that you get in touch with the right team. This can be hard but may be this is why God invented LinkedIn and Google! The big companies are usually so busy trying to figure out their joint GTM strategy with other big wigs (Oracle with Dell, SAP with IBM, Microsoft with Sun, Adobe with Google) that they have few cpu cycles to help the little guy in most cases. But when you do get to work with the right people, the rewards can be high too. Yes, Partner Programs are hard to navigate and it is difficult to gain visibility via them. At the same time I have seen several examples of companies that we at Oracle have added to our Ecosystem and helped them get PR and visibility into accounts. The only tip I have, if any, is that ‘you’ (the partner) has to do the hard work of identifying the right fit and then making sure that you get in touch with the right team. This can be hard but may be this is why God invented LinkedIn and Google!

The big companies are usually so busy trying to figure out their joint GTM strategy with other big wigs (Oracle with Dell, SAP with IBM, Microsoft with Sun, Adobe with Google) that they have few cpu cycles to help the little guy in most cases. But when you do get to work with the right people, the rewards can be high too.

]]> By: AccMan / Winweb hits 35 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-35779 AccMan / Winweb hits 35 Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:40:21 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-35779 [...] I’m amazed that development of this kind can happen so rapidly. I’m even more amazed to say Winweb has delivered on time. Which prompts the question: Why do updates and upgrades from established vendors takes so long? Charles Zedlewski goes some way towards explaining it. Jeff Nolan’s examination of ‘partner ecosystems’ doesn’t exactly fill me with joy. [...] [...] I’m amazed that development of this kind can happen so rapidly. I’m even more amazed to say Winweb has delivered on time. Which prompts the question: Why do updates and upgrades from established vendors takes so long? Charles Zedlewski goes some way towards explaining it. Jeff Nolan’s examination of ‘partner ecosystems’ doesn’t exactly fill me with joy. [...]

]]> By: Dennis Howlett http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-35758 Dennis Howlett Mon, 30 Oct 2006 06:46:23 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-35758 Roman - I listened to Shai Agassi exhorting the developer troops in Amsterdam and the message was very clear: "Bring us a customer...think in terms of a $250K price tag, that's the sweetspot for us." I'll bet it is. I tried to draw Shai on what that was supposed to mean in overall deal terms, 5%, 10%? Wouldn't go there. So Jeff is right, it's all about SAP. Not about the developer community or more important still, their customers. Roman – I listened to Shai Agassi exhorting the developer troops in Amsterdam and the message was very clear: “Bring us a customer…think in terms of a $250K price tag, that’s the sweetspot for us.” I’ll bet it is. I tried to draw Shai on what that was supposed to mean in overall deal terms, 5%, 10%? Wouldn’t go there.

So Jeff is right, it’s all about SAP. Not about the developer community or more important still, their customers.

]]> By: Innovation Creators http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-35409 Innovation Creators Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:49:36 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-35409 <strong>A Platform for IT Innovation within the Enterprise...</strong> At the Office 2.0 Conference, I had an opportunity to watch an incredible demonstration by a company called 3Tera. 3Tera claim to be " the first grid operating system that runs and scales existing web applications".   On their platform... A Platform for IT Innovation within the Enterprise…

At the Office 2.0 Conference, I had an opportunity to watch an incredible demonstration by a company called 3Tera. 3Tera claim to be ” the first grid operating system that runs and scales existing web applications”.   On their platform…

]]> By: Andy http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-35169 Andy Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:07:40 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-35169 Regarding the discovery server you still have to shell out for the very expensive licenses if you don't already have them (it is only the machine and pre-install that costs 10k) - why ? ....Microsoft's partner program waives the license costs. Actually, why not just give out virtual machine images of the software installed to all qualified partners and let them consolidate their own server capacity. SAP does not make it easy for me as a consultant to an existing SAP partner to tightly integrate (in a good sense) their offering with SAP (and their offering rocks and would ultimately drive more SAP sales). Ultimately (the caffeine is kicking in now), I see SAP's problems as stemming from extreme risk aversion, no enforcement of accountability when projects are late/misdeliver (which leads to lots of childish politics), and being victim of the hiring spiral. It is actually pretty sad because there are some stars there (less today than yesterday and less yesterday than the day before) who are stifled. The obsession with meetings does not give rise to a wisdom of crowds effect either.... Regarding the discovery server you still have to shell out for the very expensive licenses if you don’t already have them (it is only the machine and pre-install that costs 10k) – why ? ….Microsoft’s partner program waives the license costs.

Actually, why not just give out virtual machine images of the software installed to all qualified partners and let them consolidate their own server capacity.

SAP does not make it easy for me as a consultant to an existing SAP partner to tightly integrate (in a good sense) their offering with SAP (and their offering rocks and would ultimately drive more SAP sales).

Ultimately (the caffeine is kicking in now), I see SAP’s problems as stemming from extreme risk aversion, no enforcement of accountability when projects are late/misdeliver (which leads to lots of childish politics), and being victim of the hiring spiral. It is actually pretty sad because there are some stars there (less today than yesterday and less yesterday than the day before) who are stifled. The obsession with meetings does not give rise to a wisdom of crowds effect either….

]]> By: Roman Rytov http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-35155 Roman Rytov Fri, 27 Oct 2006 23:06:26 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-35155 though agreeing with the question-statement I can only mention that ESA Discovery Server (www.hp.com/go/server/sap or http://sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/esadiscovery) came to address at least the problem of the high cost barrier of getting our solutions to a partner's labs. Now you get NW with both stacks installed and a dozen of applications and components configured and running on one machine for less than 10K. I'm leading now the MDM direction in the solution office and getting partners up to speed is the major target for now (which is historically not fast and easy in SAP and high dynamics of MDM makes it even more challenging). In our case we're listening to the partners' complains and trying to address them in the most efficient way, even if it requires bypassing some policies or the standard methods. But again, I agree that your complains are valid. Apparently it's one of the "industry standards" if it's relevant for all the big boys in our world and not SAP only though agreeing with the question-statement I can only mention that ESA Discovery Server (www.hp.com/go/server/sap or http://sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/esadiscovery) came to address at least the problem of the high cost barrier of getting our solutions to a partner’s labs. Now you get NW with both stacks installed and a dozen of applications and components configured and running on one machine for less than 10K.

I’m leading now the MDM direction in the solution office and getting partners up to speed is the major target for now (which is historically not fast and easy in SAP and high dynamics of MDM makes it even more challenging). In our case we’re listening to the partners’ complains and trying to address them in the most efficient way, even if it requires bypassing some policies or the standard methods.

But again, I agree that your complains are valid. Apparently it’s one of the “industry standards” if it’s relevant for all the big boys in our world and not SAP only

]]> By: Jeff http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-35141 Jeff Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:47:22 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-35141 Fair enough Kevin (and in all honesty, knowing as you do the SAP partner model I haven't even bothered to approach anyone there... but that was the point of the post). Here's the dilemma, if all they are going to focus on is companies that win deals in the markets they already dominate, how do they move into new markets? Put another way, if the only people you are talking to are the people you have been talking to, how do you learn, grow, build better products, make your customers happier? If Salesforce.com had come to SAP 8 years ago and said "hey, we have an idea for a new model for SFA and we would like to work with you to make it happen" they would have been ignored, stalled, and neglected. As was put to me by another person who really knows this business, "Though all the big vendors talk about solutions they are not willing to put skin in the game to understand what customers really need and want. Conversely, small vendors often just want sales leads handed to them without working hard to fit into a broader solution. A lack of trust and common goals on both sides make it an unworkable situation.If the automobile companies were run like software companies, you would never get a car that works, is pre integrated and out of a factory. It would be a bunch of piece parts." The real message in my post is that small companies like my own are increasingly not looking at large vendor partner networks as anything other than a time and money sink. I don't think it's about getting something for nothing, but rather having a healthy ecosystem that provides for all participants in some measurable way. Fair enough Kevin (and in all honesty, knowing as you do the SAP partner model I haven’t even bothered to approach anyone there… but that was the point of the post).

Here’s the dilemma, if all they are going to focus on is companies that win deals in the markets they already dominate, how do they move into new markets? Put another way, if the only people you are talking to are the people you have been talking to, how do you learn, grow, build better products, make your customers happier? If Salesforce.com had come to SAP 8 years ago and said “hey, we have an idea for a new model for SFA and we would like to work with you to make it happen” they would have been ignored, stalled, and neglected.

As was put to me by another person who really knows this business, “Though all the big vendors talk about solutions they are not willing to put skin in the game to understand what customers really need and want. Conversely, small vendors often just want sales leads handed to them without working hard to fit into a broader solution. A lack of trust and common goals on both sides make it an unworkable situation.If the automobile companies were run like software companies, you would never get a car that works, is pre integrated and out of a factory. It would be a bunch of piece parts.”

The real message in my post is that small companies like my own are increasingly not looking at large vendor partner networks as anything other than a time and money sink. I don’t think it’s about getting something for nothing, but rather having a healthy ecosystem that provides for all participants in some measurable way.

]]> By: Kevin McDonald http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/comment-page-1/#comment-35140 Kevin McDonald Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:36:02 +0000 http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/10/27/the-problem-with-partner-ecosystems/#comment-35140 Welcome to your new life, Mr. Plankton. Ahhh yes, life on the outside how bittersweet it is. Insert 22$k and get a partner logo, get invited to invest more money exhibiting at the events, and get some software that may take another 22k$ to install and by the time it is installed twelve months will have pasted and you'll need to re-anti 22k$. Seriously though (or is it No, seriously though?), what did you expect? Your company hasn’t really shown the world its product and has no clients as far as I can tell. The only people at ORCL or SAP that may be interested in Teqlo are the Venture folks and a few product management types. My experience has been once you give SAP a reason to care about you- by winning deals at their clients- then they’ll open up. All the best navigating these waters. Welcome to your new life, Mr. Plankton. Ahhh yes, life on the outside how bittersweet it is. Insert 22$k and get a partner logo, get invited to invest more money exhibiting at the events, and get some software that may take another 22k$ to install and by the time it is installed twelve months will have pasted and you’ll need to re-anti 22k$.

Seriously though (or is it No, seriously though?), what did you expect? Your company hasn’t really shown the world its product and has no clients as far as I can tell. The only people at ORCL or SAP that may be interested in Teqlo are the Venture folks and a few product management types. My experience has been once you give SAP a reason to care about you- by winning deals at their clients- then they’ll open up.

All the best navigating these waters.

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